Arguing with a Feminist…..

Well, if you don’t have similar view, the debate won’t go anywhere….

Quiet Riot Girl wrote an excellent post describing some of the core beliefs….

http://quietgirlriot.wordpress.com/2011/04/28/against-feminisms/#comment-3634

Quoted from the article:

“1) Feminism is based on an assumption that overall, men as a group hold power in society and this power, damages women as a group.

2) The above assumption, no matter what feminists say, relies on a belief in and a reinforcement of the essentialist binary view of gender (i.e. that male v female men v women masculine v feminine are real and important distinctions. That is how feminists justify their belief that ‘men’ hold power over ‘women’)

3) This means that in order to present these assumptions as ‘fact’, men are demonised by feminism as a whole. Feminism is, by its very nature, misandrist. e.g. concepts such as ‘rape culture’  and ‘patriarchy’ and ‘violence against women and girls’ and  ‘the male gaze’ and ‘objectification’ rely on making out men are not decent people, in general, as a group. To be accepted as decent human beings, the onus is placed by feminists onto men to prove their worth, and to prove why they differ from the (socialised or innate) ‘norm’ of dominant masculinity.”

My response:

stonerwithabonersays:

Trigger Warning:Derail, Derail I say—I am not posting in response to any of the above comments but on Quiet Riot Girl’s excellent article. ;)

Is feminism a philosophy, a political movement, a bunch of angry women (and pathetic men who want to sleep with them)…….

Well, on threads where I’ve seen rational people try to debate the moral majority, they get dismissed as mansplainers or worse.

It is like watching an Atheist debate a bunch of rabid Christians.

If it is a philosophy, there are axioms or postulates that it is based upon. I think what QRG did was point out the postulates that most feminists believe without question. And anyone who does is dismissed with the banhammer and cynical words.

Really, if they wanted Gender Equality, that’s what the movement would be called, not feminism. It’s like “white Power”–it ain’t good for anyone outside of the movement.

3 thoughts on “Arguing with a Feminist…..

  1. There are feminists like those engaging on QRG’s blog there who aren’t bigots. Even if they come from a position of arguing that men hold more power in society today (which I don’t agree with), they a) accept that men suffer in unique ways too; b) appreciate the gender dynamic is more complicated than the binary narrative of the standard feminist view; c) don’t consider most individual men to have gained from it, or to collude in it, even subconsciously.

    The two basic differences between their philosophy and mine are the identity politics angle, specifically relating to gender; and the belief that women on average are slightly worse off in our society. Both I disagree with, but both reasonable beliefs which I can challenge with reason and facts.

    That, for me, describes an ideological position which can legitimately be called “feminist” (because it does take a specifically female-orientated approach) without being a bigotted one. This is possible, and does exist, I have to remind myself, but the simple fact is among those who call themselves “feminist” (at least online, I don’t really talk politics much in the non-binary world) these are a pretty small minority. Also, of course, they are open to disagreement and willing to debate (and not just from other “feminists”…)

    It doesn’t really matter, but it always makes me feel slightly frustrated that they continue to identify this way, because I feel like they have a relevant mindset which could stand on it’s own, it seems wasted as simply forming the tiny, reasonable, fringe minority to the much bigger, more unpleasant monster which is mainstream feminism. It’s like a group of decent people slightly concerned that immigration is too high but not racists deciding to join the BNP.

    I think the supposed “worthiness” of feminism is just too deeply imprinted in the collective left-wing consciousness (even though it really isn’t “worthy” any more) that women of that persuasion feel an emotional attachment to it. Without wishing to get all biologically determinist about it, I do think that is a particularly female characteristic, too.

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