Traditionalism or feminism….

…which is more dangerous to the low status male?

I believe both are but I believe traditionalism is the more dangerous of the two….

I believe “men’s right’s” will fail for many reasons but I believe the greatest is that they will not acknowledge the dangers of traditionalism and the bad deal of staying in the disposable role…

Some say that feminism/traditionalism is a two headed hydra and feminism is easier to attack, therefore “we” should attack feminism first…

While there is some synergy between feminism and traditionalism, that isn’t the whole story…

So, I don’t believe that if “feminism is conquered”-things will be much better if at all…

What does that leave-go back to the protector/provider role because whatever???

There is also another thing I am finding as I’m reading more “MGTOW” stuff-a huge right wing/libertarian leaning vibe. While I believe that someone should be able to keep what they earn and things like intellectual property should be protected (yeah Lars Ulrich, I said that if I ever meet you IRL, buy me a fucking beer motherfucker…) -I still see a “winner take all” Nietzschean vibe going on. A “might makes right” vibe in libertarianism-have you ever seen those rants about the evilles of minimum wage? I don’t think MGTOW’s should be socialists/collectivists, but I don’t think libertarianism in and off itself will lead us to some great age of wealth and invention.

It’s ironic, you have Fidelboggen talking about not giving a shit about men…

You have Girl Writes What Going to her libertarian conventions…

And of course you have Captain Capitalism-who isn’t an M(h)RA-but sure as fuck get’s props from M(h)RA’s for his shitting on MGTOW’s with glee…

Well, let’s not worry about these idiots….

What have I done for men and do I even care?

I’m in this for freedom, for living a better life for myself…

Let’s g back a step, where does this libertarian thing fit in…

Well, fuck all, if you can get a couple mill in your bank account, well, going ghost would be easy, never have to worry about a paycheck ever again…

And I can see where some gobleygook about free markets, blahblablah, work hard, earn it and burn it might be appealing…

And I also appreciate that single men might be on the hook with higher taxes than single women (who statistically live longer and will get more money out of the system) or married couples who get tax breaks-

But how do things like no safety nets, no minimum wage benefit the average low status guy? Truth be told it doesn’t. To me it looks like poor southern whites voting Republican just because…

Libertarian sounds like tough guy talk. Fake it to make it. Alpha. All that. Yeah, we seen that with those PUA guys…

I don’t know that allot of what is being presented within MGTOW spaces aligns with what I personally believe. IRL, people tell me I’m a libertarian because I don’t believe in draconian drug laws but I’m probably closer to an anarchist, not an anarcocapitalist but an anarchist. In fact, I believe that the vast concentrations of wealth create less freedom, not more. No more of this “man-up”/”fake it and make it” shit…

If wages had kept up with worker productivity even as the economy has moved more towards a service based economy…. Well, just think, more men would be able to maintain a suitable bachelor lifestyle working part-time. Just think, which is more friendly to MGTOW, “winner takes all” or an economy where more men can support themselves part-time. I understand there are some guys, for example those trained as engineers who can easily get high paying contract work who do this, this doesn’t apply to most men. Just imagine, higher wages for the average person. Having money wouldn’t be any advantage to attracting women. I suppose those guys obsessed with pay to play wouldn’t want this, oh well. More leisure time, more freedom. LEss bragging about how “hard” someone works. Yes, I realize what I’m stating is contradictory to what is stated in most of the manosphere/”men’s rights.” Well, except for those 4 hr workweek sites but then they try to sell you something. Yes, I’m going in a different direction than most so-called MGTOW’s. And at this point, I question if I am even MGTOW…

6 thoughts on “Traditionalism or feminism….

  1. Good post, Stoner.

    So far, your content is for me the most relatable of all ‘men’s issues’ blogs, I’ve read.

    There’s certainly a reason why posters at wizchan claim that the MGTOW community consists mostly of bad people. Allegedly, it is infested with men who think that bullying of lower status men and boys is a good thing and that there should be more of it, for example. That’s probably why there’s often a strong expression of resentment from Wizards towards MGTOW whenever this idea is brought up.

    1. Thanks, man…

      Unfortunately MGTOW is looking more and more like another arm of the man-0-sphere instead of it’s own thing–can’t we just leave those “alpha’s” behind???

  2. Yes…one thing about MGTOW I could not understand was all the Randroidism I encountered in the forums and such, hence why I never joined one or bothered to post. Anyway , your post expressed some thoughts I have had as well. All the best Stoner.

    1. I’m not against libertarianism on principle, in fact I might even agree with some talking points, the disturbing part is how uncritically it is automatically being accepted just the way other ideas such as “patriarchy” seemed to be uncritically accepted in other movements. It’s almost cult like…

  3. I was happy to see this post because I have been thinking a lot about status lately. For all practical purposes, I have no status whatsoever (in all honesty, I didn’t choose to pursue status either, so it is understandable), but being a white male in North America I have been regularly reminded of my privileged status. This is one reason that the MGTOW content that resonates with me the most is that calling attention to the invisibility of low status men — which is most men. It is not only that 80 percent of women chase 20 percent of the men, it is pretty much the same thing with jobs, opportunities, even “friends.” Like popularity among girls, status among men is self-perpetuating. The more you get, the more you get.

    I am pretty much a ghost — not in the sense of making a grand gesture of leaving my job and living off the grid, but in terms of my invisibility. I go about my life, and no one notices (like the invisible boy in the film Mystery Men). That’s fine, though of course it is difficult not to envy those who get the good things in life — but it is easier to go your own way.

    Is traditionalism or feminism more dangerous for a low status male? Traditionalism is probably institutionally the greater danger, but for pure shitty face-to-face encounters, feminism is the bigger problem. A lot of traditionalists are at least polite, but few if any feminists are polite. As many MGTOW have observed, the feminist snake routinely eats its own tail, consuming its own, and destroying many of its most effective advocates.

    Suppose both traditionalism and feminism blow up in our faces (as they seem to be doing). What then? For the most part, people wouldn’t know what to do with themselves. They will try to reconstruct familiar patterns of life in the ruins, but it will be like the pathetic hovels in the Roman Colosseum when it was no longer used for gladiatorial games.

    1. Hey man,

      I’m on the same page as far as invisible…

      A friend gave me some edibles, I watched the fireworks quite stoned. Stayed on the edge of the crowd. Talked to hardly anyone-and stayed off the radar especially as far as cops. I used to be a cop magnet but these days they just leave me alone. Avoided drama and fully enjoyed myself…

      I think I saw a quote somewhere where in traditionalism a man is a horse but atleast he is a well fed and groomed horse…

      Feminist’s have said F-U to our faces. Just imagine, if you were on a sinking ship, you could run past a feminist and grab the last seat on the lifeboat. If she cried about it, you could just say benevolent sexism is the worst kind. But all those trady-cons like Judgy Bitch and her womyn against feminizm will say, “But we baked you cookies and if you were better looking, you woulda got a bj. Now give us your seat or we’ll cry rape,”

      Maybe not the best analogy but I think you’ve gotten the point…

      As far as the last thing you said, maybe that’s why M(h)RA’s hold onto the traditional role so strongly. It’s like someone who wins a bunch of money but doesn’t quit their job.

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