MGTOW seems to have lost it’s way….

…or I never understood it properly to begin with…

My original understanding was that MGTOW would be a workaround for a (low status het cis*)  bachelor man to avoid the landmines he was pressured into stepping on…

Namely to avoid marriage and serious relationships with women that have proven toxic for so many other men.  And if you haven’t seen older brothers, fathers or uncles destroyed by matrimony, you could always mosey on over to the cesspit known as AVfM to see extraordinarily bitter men complain about how painful it was to step onto a landmine.  It’s a very simple premise.  It doesn’t advocate for “changing the world.”  It doesn’t advocate for others to change their worldview.

However, what I have watched this morph into is something completely different.  Something with such a simple narrow focus doesn’t lead to enough content for someone trying to make a living off of Youtube.  They gotta start complaining about other things and then put it under a big umbrella label.  It doesn’t necessitate writing a book.  And it certainly doesn’t necessitate anyone “revealing their true identity” in some PUA styled dick measuring contest.  I’ve watched as “libertarians” invaded with “red-pilled” ideas that quite frankly only help someone who is earning 6 figures as a software engineer and who is upwardly mobile.  It leaves behind a never married, low income man.  It leaves the common man behind.  The “libertarians” have about as many answers as the Democrat and Republican party combined.  That’s NONE.  You can complain about Big Gubbymint all fucking day long, but short of collapse or HUGE political activism, it ain’t changing.  So you can polish your 357 waiting for collapse the same way a feminist and a tradcon say you polish your pecker looking at anime porn–or you could try to figure out the best workarounds in a society where wealth is trickling to the top, wages are stagnating and jobs WILL be automated.  I don’t see these discussions happening at sheddingoftheego.

I don’t presume that MGTOW’s should be worried about being compared to feminist’s.  I don’t presume that MGTOW’s should be worried about being called bitter, lonely, basement dwelling misogynists.  In fact I believe there is only one metric where their ideas should be measured.  The utility to low status bachelor men who are navigating treacherous territory.  Nothing else…

*to use the condescending language of liberals and feminists…

13 thoughts on “MGTOW seems to have lost it’s way….

  1. I’ve observed how his marriage and divorce has damaged, almost destroyed, my father. Not that I feel much sympathy with him but I keep this as a cautionary example in mind amongst many others. It’s almost ungraspable to me that there are men who are aware what kind of bullshit feminism is but at the same time they still don’t take it as a big red flag if a chick of interest spews big time BS. Furthermore even after those guys are stressed out by their failed relationshits they still have the nerve to promote women as a good way for getting to “know yourself”. Needless to say that there are many other, better options for this purpose.

    As for this collapse fantasy thing, I think that in “Western Society” for most men from the lower mid to the bottom it’s not going to end with a bang but with a whimper. Gunworship won’t change anything in this system and I’m happy about it. Just take a look at the Congo and tell me how well it works if “it’s happening”. So, one has to find ways to make this slow, painful burn at least bearable and it’s more or less safe to assume that women under certain circumstances worsen your pain or even accelerate the burn.

    I’m in the process of becoming comfortable with the possibility to never found a family. Besides already implied downsides, it’s one of those things in life only affordable by a guy who at the very least is “someone who is earning 6 figures as a software engineer and who is upwardly mobile”.

  2. “It’s almost ungraspable to me that there are men who are aware what kind of bullshit feminism is but at the same time they still don’t take it as a big red flag if a chick of interest spews big time BS.”

    It’s bigger than feminism, in fact (and I almost can’t believe I’m saying this) non-feminist women can be as bad or worse.

    “Furthermore even after those guys are stressed out by their failed relationshits they still have the nerve to promote women as a good way for getting to “know yourself”.

    I think psychadelic drugs can be a gateway to self knowledge but I don’t suppose it’s right for everyone to try them.

    “As for this collapse fantasy thing, I think that in “Western Society” for most men from the lower mid to the bottom it’s not going to end with a bang but with a whimper. ”

    Economist’s claim to know when a recession is happening as they have happened before. As the US hasn’t faced collapse before, people may not realize when it has happened until years later. IE a certain tipping point is reached as far as national debt but no one recognized it until after the fact. It may also play out far differently than anyone expects. For example, very long wait times for 911 calls. Or, as is the case in places like SF, “middle class people” like teachers won’t be able to survive in many parts of the country. It is also possible that some parts of the country do very bad whereas other parts even prosper. I doubt it will be a “Mad Max” scenario.

    “I’m in the process of becoming comfortable with the possibility to never found a family.”

    This is probably the toughest part. There’s also some relief though. I think supporting a family would be a ton of pressure.

  3. I was looking up a little backstreet mosque that is close to where I live recently, and found out that under “services” they listed things such as helping out with all things insurance, taxes, unemployment, health care, regulations for business, etc. related.

    Now say what you want about Muslims (and religion), but from what I’ve seen from MGTOW’s on the internet … they rather create an atmosphere where you want to hide that you are poor or that you lost your job and that you would need help from someone about forms and paperwork etc.

    As for countries collapsing: what is a “country” anyway? I think that’s all very outdated, this whole idea that country 1 (say the USA) loses power while country 2 (say China) gains power … I think in reality all countries have lost power as countries while corporations have gained power. The USA is technically the most powerful of all countries – but how many citizens profit from that? The “country” USA might not “collapse” … but more and more citizens might end up homeless or at least living in crippling poverty.

    And so far in history most “collapses” didn’t really change that much. My parents are both from countries that do not even exist anymore, they literally “collapsed” … but how much does such a collapse actually mean? Most countries in the world have a ruling upper-class that is doing just fine and that is ruling over people who are struggling. And I’m afraid the Western world will simply join that club.

    I guess in that regard I’ve become increasingly cynic, unfortunately. I don’t really buy into that Marxist idea of “accelerationism” of things just having to get worse before it will get better and people then realizing that the “99%” or whatever just has to work together … in reality, when things get worse, people join radical fringe groups, religious radicals, political extremists and start killing each other…

    I think the only thing that would help now would be depopulation, reducing of working hours and equality world wide.

    Depopulation (as in promoting the one-child family and MGTOW not in some dystopian shit of course – but promoting the one-child family instead of promoting a breeding contest between Christians vs Muslims and whites vs blacks etc.) because there is less and less work and more and more people competing for said work. Let alone the environmental effects IF we don’t just want to eat grass for the rest of our lives. Reducing of working hours for the same reasons and equality world wide because “the capital” either imports misery or goes to misery for cheap labor. And good luck in competing with some Chinese slave labor!

    But right now we see the opposite happening. The world population has EXPLODED over the last 50 years, we’re seven billion now, people are promoting a breeding contest between the races and the religions and the conspiracy theories … lol … they should ask themselves: if the bilderbergers really want to depopulate the world, how come that they achieve ALL their goals, with everything but them getting poorer, with the wars in the middle east etc. …. but for some strange reason the ONLY goal they don’t achieve is said depopulation, for some strange reason.
    No, the overpopulated world with racists and religious fanatics promoting a breeding contest, with liberals promoting asceticism (eat grass! meat should be more expensive to save the environment!) and BILLIONS of people competing for fewer and fewer jobs (and hence willing to work for lower and lower wages but paying more and more rent) is the best thing that could happen for them. And equality world wide, because nationalism in an age of global corporations, outsourcing, technology and automated jobs etc. won’t work anymore. A wall to Mexico won’t bring back 1950s heavy industry manufacturing or some of “farmer’s idyll” like it might have existed in some parts during the pioneering days of what then became the US. The “best” you get with nationalism is the slave jobs in China coming to the US – I read lately that some corporation in the USA doesn’t allow its employees to go to the toilet during working hours, so they all stand with diapers at the production line, lol…

    Anyways, we’re obviously far far far far away from “equality world wide” and reducing of working hours etc. So I’m pretty pessimistic. But well, anyways. Wall of text but whatever.

    1. “I was looking up a little backstreet mosque that is close to where I live recently, and found out that under “services” they listed things such as helping out with all things insurance, taxes, unemployment, health care, regulations for business, etc. related.”

      In the US there are stereotypes such as Apu on the Simpsons cartoon with his QuickieMart. The HBD’ers have their so far up their asses they will say certain races are genetically predisposed to work at Quickie Marts and too low on the HBD scale to do anything else. But what isn’t being said is that when immigrants are FOB, there are communities which help with financing, how to get a business license, how to make the business succeed, how to skirt regulations (and likely what to say if caught.) I’ve never seen this in the “libertarian MGTOW community.” Do most of those guys with a $30 million passive income even know what a business license is? Do any of those guys know when a side business is profitable and sustainable to leave a 9 to 5?

      ” And I’m afraid the Western world will simply join that club.”

      That ship has already sailed. Look at the upcoming election.

      “A wall to Mexico won’t bring back 1950s heavy industry manufacturing or some of “farmer’s idyll” like it might have existed in some parts during the pioneering days of what then became the US.”

      There’s a video somewhere where a bunch of Americans are told their jobs are going to Monterrey, MX. The irony is if Americans jump Trump’s wall to find work down south.

      “Anyways, we’re obviously far far far far away from “equality world wide” and reducing of working hours etc. So I’m pretty pessimistic. But well, anyways. Wall of text but whatever.”

      The elephant in the room is that workers have become more efficient but wages didn’t rise. Wages should’ve followed productivity and we should’ve seen a move to 5 and 6 work hour days. Companies like Uber used technology to destroy the cab industry, then started a race to the bottom by cutting drivers rates. Also, because drivers are contractors, they aren’t covered by unemployment. Uber just hires more drivers. Uber hopes people only look at an hourly rate but don’t do the math as far as wear and tear on their vehicle, etc,etc. Also many people don’t realize they will need to pay taxes on their “self employment income.”

  4. To me, MGTOW doesn’t need any kind of political or economic ideology attached to it, nor does it need any kind of organization or institution to center on. It doesn’t need anything to exist and propagate, except for one thing: societal circumstances that make marriage and relationships a pitfall. It doesn’t matter how people define it or who’s arguing with whom. In fact, you could even say that these MRA outfits and YouTube hucksters aren’t even MGTOW, but more like MGTSW: men going the same way. They have sharp elbows, and it shows, but it doesn’t matter.

    MGTOW isn’t a resource for certain men, but a decision that can be made by any man. MGTOW describes a phenomenon of many men coming to the same decision about marriage and relationships, and leaving the grid. Anyone can make that decision, and it could be argued that low-status heterosexual men can go their own way easier than anyone else, because there are no preexisting ties to break. All one had to do is decide not to have any non-professional contact with non-family women, and stick to it. All he has to do after that is live his life however he sees fit.

    MGTOW will continue to propagate as long as the endeavor of coupling carries more liabilities than benefits. Women have the power to turn this around, but they show no signs of doing that. Therefore, this is only the beginning of MGTOW, and over time, you are going to start seeing people get more and more frantic about it. Will they realize what is causing it and how to stop it? Don’t hold your breath.

  5. “To me, MGTOW doesn’t need any kind of political or economic ideology attached to it, nor does it need any kind of organization or institution to center on.”

    yes, because “opting out” is a personal strategy. There is no authoritarian “voice for men” demanding donations needed. Unfortunately the M(h)RM was seen as “right wing” when Bernie was a big deal, then “left wing” when Dean Esmay was Darth Elam’s right hand man. Then GWW was going to her “libertarian” conventions and all the fanboi’s were now “libertarians.” While in the abstract sense, less gov’t might help low status men, the reality isn’t the direction of where things are going. Also, interestingly enough, allot of the right wing manuresphere guys like Chapin/Clarey are huge on the military. Well, what is the fucking military? Big Gubmint.

    “Will they realize what is causing it and how to stop it?”

    Likely more shaming of men which will have the opposite effect. Stanley McChrystal coined the term insurgent mathematics during the  Afghan war. The traditional thinking was if you got in a fight with 10 insurgents and killed 2, 6 would be left because 2 got discouraged and quit. However, the reality was that if 2 insurgents were killed, you now had 12 because 4 new guys became sympathetic to the cause. These guys had brothers, cousins, uncles and they would join rather than guys becoming discouraged and quitting.

    http://www.thenation.com/article/how-us-war-afghanistan-fueled-taliban-insurgency/

    (Of course I am not comparing MGTOW to ISIS/Taliban. I am merely illustrating that the more ill treatment men face, the more certain men will opt out.)

  6. If MGTOW is a reaction to “societal circumstances”, it will always be somewhat political and economical tho, because politics and economy shape society.

    It doesn’t need an ideology attached to it in the sense that MGTOW must be libertarian or MGTOW must be socialist, but it also shouldn’t be apolitical and individualistic in the sense that we just end up blaming individuals for not being “alpha” or “redpilled” or “blackpilled” enough, while ignoring the bigger (political) picture and claiming that every underemployed low-status man would suddenly become a millionaire if only he would stop looking for a girlfriend.

    It reminds me tho, that feminists and women in general begun with focusing on “meta politics”, and the European “Nouvelle Droite” (“New Right”) that has then influenced the American “alt-right” focused on the “vorpolitischen Raum”, the “pre-political space.”

    For example:
    “Politics” in that sense means that “capitalists” and “socialists” argue with each other, debating which of their economical models would be best for women. Or Muslims in the West spend a good deal of time with arguing that Islam is actually good for and good to women, while people who criticize Islam disagree and say that Christianity or Atheism is much better for women.

    “Pre-political” then is all the culture that made these groups debate about what is best for women in the first place, instead of debating what would be good for men. And what is said about religion here could also be said about politics: http://www.antifeministtech.info/every-religion-and-atheism-is-getting-feminized/

    1. well, in American politics, you’ve got two self proclaimed feminists with Clinton and Sanders. And Trump has said that he pays women more for the same work. Some might say it is because women are the largest voting block…

      “If MGTOW is a reaction to “societal circumstances”, it will always be somewhat political and economical tho, because politics and economy shape society. ”

      Now should MGTOW’s pontificate about what is the best political situation or merely discuss workarounds for what is the current situation?

    2. claiming that every underemployed low-status man would suddenly become a millionaire if only he would stop looking for a girlfriend

      I know from my experience this is possible since I have done it. (Minus the underemployed part)

      It reminds me tho, that feminists and women in general begun with focusing on “meta politics”, and the European “Nouvelle Droite” (“New Right”) that has then influenced the American “alt-right” focused on the “vorpolitischen Raum”, the “pre-political space.”

      In the feminist/women case, isn’t “pre-politics” or “meta-politics” just another name for biology?

      1. “I know from my experience this is possible since I have done it. (Minus the underemployed part)”

        Ironically, thinking in terms of MGTOW/”opting out” made it easier to walk from a crappy employment situation. I was a cold caller at a tech company and they were dangling paying me as a W-2 with health benefits (for a lower commission payout.) I walked because I was single and now having W-2 income and being able to buy a new car because I could finally prove my income didn’t hold any appeal to me, but of course the other two guys, one a father and the other living with a woman stayed.

  7. “Now should MGTOW’s pontificate about what is the best political situation or merely discuss workarounds for what is the current situation?”

    Both, because I can’t really imagine properly discussing workarounds without also discussing politics. I mean, you just did pretty much the same when you described the military as “big gubmint.” Military is a good example anyway because I’ve read and heard of more than one man who pondered about joining the military as some sort of “escapism” and “fuck you” to society.

    “In the feminist/women case, isn’t “pre-politics” or “meta-politics” just another name for biology?”

    I guess it’s only biological in the sense that they draw the line between “us” and “them” based on gender. I remember I read an interview with an old feminist here and she said that when she started in the 60s and 70s, she was very angry at all these left-wingers (the same way they often talk about “berniebros” and “brocialists” on tumblr now) because for them, history was about “working class” vs “capitalists” – they didn’t really think in the category gender, for them that was all just one of Marx’ “side contradictions” that came out of the more important “main contradiction” (between “capitalists” and “workers”)…

    …so now women wanted the world to look at history through a biological lense: men vs women. And they pretty much prevailed.

  8. “And they pretty much prevailed.”

    PS
    By which I mean that they pretty much prevailed in making men the scapegoat and the nemesis of history. The average person who identifies as a left-winger these days will rather tell you something along the lines of “Women should rule the world, then there wouldn’t be war!” instead of “Let’s overthrow the bourgeoisie to install a dictatorship of the proletariat!”

    And this kind of thinking has left no space for anything else. Whenever there is a (new) theory or ideology (it can be a terrible ideology or a good one, that’s not the point now) that is opposed to gynocentrism, it will sooner or later be attacked and crushed or twisted until it’s all about “How good is it for women?” again.

  9. “The average person who identifies as a left-winger these days will rather tell you something along the lines of “Women should rule the world, then there wouldn’t be war!” instead of “Let’s overthrow the bourgeoisie to install a dictatorship of the proletariat!”

    yes, feminism tried to overtake other movements. Ironically, feminism tried to overtake things like the civil rights movement even though many feminists are just as racist as anyone in the alt-right.

    (dropping links like this in front of feminist’s is just as fun as dropping links about Hitler’s Jewish ancestry in front of Ne-Nazi’s.)

    https://dearwhitefeminists.wordpress.com/update/

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s